I call myself an atheist, but perhaps agnostic better defines me. Well, I'm hard to define. I don't believe in a god, personified or abstract really. But I have a firm belief in fate. I don't necessarily believe in a set-in-stone fate we can't avoid, fate only describes everything as it is, by cause and effect. Perhaps its less spiritual than it is an interpritation of logic, but it seems to dictate all happens for good reason. That seems to imply a predetermined fate, but it actually only states that we shall see the effects of any occurance later, becoming part of fate. "Everything happens for good reason" helps me cope a lot similar to religious faith does for others.

Only you can affirm what you are, nobody else can.

"Agnosticism (Greek: α- a-, without + γνώσις gnōsis, knowledge; after Gnosticism) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of deities, spiritual-beings, or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently impossible to prove or disprove. It is often put forth as a middle ground between theism and atheism,[1] though it is not a religious declaration in itself, and the terms are not mutually exclusive, since agnosticism refers to knowledge, while atheism and theism refer to belief.[2]

Demographic research services normally list agnostics in the same category as atheists and/or non-religious people,[3] using 'agnostic' in the sense of 'noncommittal'.[4][dubious – discuss] However, this can be misleading given the existence of agnostic theists, who identify themselves as both agnostics in the original sense and followers of a particular religion.

Many philosophers and thinkers have written about agnosticism, including Thomas Henry Huxley, Albert Einstein, Robert G. Ingersoll, and Bertrand Russell. Religious scholars who wrote about agnosticism are Peter Kreeft, Blaise Pascal and Joseph Ratzinger, later elected as Pope Benedict XVI."~Wikipedia

The way in which you view, describe, and define fate is largely how you make it a reality or a self-fulfilling prophesy. Words can be made to mean anything, so it depends upon what context and upon what system of belief that you ascribe that word to mean. That is to say, the definition and perception that you give it largely determines the application and relevance of the word in universal terms, i.e. in comparison to whatever you identify with the meaning and essence of that word itself, as the word is contingent upon the arbitrary perception of the individual and can be made to encompass and consume all matters so long as the individual relationship is maintained.

So fate is merely subjective in nature, as it is our insular and myopic perspective that gives it life.

I'm glad to see suc h involved thought and knowledge in respose to my own beliefs.
Indeed its true words can be made to mean anything, so I state my own belief in the meaning of fate. As I only have so much insight into various religions and beliefs of others, I find my beliefs sepaate from all else and thus associate with no established belief system. I find many flaws and a lot of corruption in organized religion, and in so prefer not to be so involved, but such is only my perspective.
You seem to have a high ability of understanding, which is always good. Now I'm curious asd to your own beliefs.

Curious about my own beliefs? That's a tough one. I'd say that my beliefs titillate towards the end of ad infinitum and credo quia absurdum. Everything is based upon my own unilateral perspective and my own sketchy interpretation of what "is" and what "isn't," so I'm constantly caught within a paradoxical web that obviates me from making a clear distinction between what I believe is 'true' and what I believe is 'untrue'. That is to stay, I'm stuck in a state of constant fluctuation so my views vary from day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute, second to second, and so on.

I'm incessantly making changes and extirpating certain ideas, morals, and values from my life, i.e. I'm adding and subtracting certain beliefs from what one might call their personal constitution; I'm systematically amending the structure and foundation of my beliefs on a continuous basis, so there's no telling what it is exactly that I believe.

Did I answer your question? or were you looking for something revolving more around the issue of me believing in the existence of a deity?

And as far the "high level of understanding" that you attribute to me, I must say that you give me way too much credit. I'm just as faulty and as insular in my views as anyone else, or as Terentius would say, "I am human, nothing human is alien to me."

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Originally posted by Oni:
I call myself an atheist, but perhaps agnostic better defines me. Well, I'm hard to define.

Or maybe it is not necessary to identify yourself with anything?

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But I have a firm belief in fate. I don't necessarily believe in a set-in-stone fate we can't avoid, fate only describes everything as it is, by cause and effect. Perhaps its less spiritual than it is an interpretation of logic, but it seems to dictate all happens for good reason. That seems to imply a predetermined fate, but it actually only states that we shall see the effects of any occurrence later, becoming part of fate. "Everything happens for good reason" helps me cope a lot similar to religious faith does for others.

Mmm... The above only implies that there is a reason for everything - it does not mean a chiseled in stone future. It's not what most people associate with the word "fate", but if you ever met someone with views close to yours you would not have to explain what that word means for you. The other person would know it by heart.

Because words are imprecise and rely heavily on mutually accepted associations and cultural traits, it can be hard to put your beliefs into words even when those beliefs are clear to you.

And spirituality does not have to be religious. Are you familiar with Dan Millman's books?

If you want, you can check out my myspace and I have a whole list of revolutionaries and philosophers on my friends list and in the 'hero' portion of the profile. I believe that the exposure to those figures might help you as it has me.

http://home.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user

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Originally posted by Nihilis:
If you want, you can check out my myspace and I have a whole list of revolutionaries and philosophers on my friends list and in the 'hero' portion of the profile. I believe that the exposure to those figures might help you as it has me.

I'll check it out when I can, can't get on Myspace here.

Honestly, there is the difference between Atheism and Agnosticism that I haven't found out. I need help with that one. I know what I believe, and it really is neither of them.

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Originally posted by CoffeeOwl:

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Originally posted by Oni:
I call myself an atheist, but perhaps agnostic better defines me. Well, I'm hard to define.

Or maybe it is not necessary to identify yourself with anything?

quote:

But I have a firm belief in fate. I don't necessarily believe in a set-in-stone fate we can't avoid, fate only describes everything as it is, by cause and effect. Perhaps its less spiritual than it is an interpretation of logic, but it seems to dictate all happens for good reason. That seems to imply a predetermined fate, but it actually only states that we shall see the effects of any occurrence later, becoming part of fate. "Everything happens for good reason" helps me cope a lot similar to religious faith does for others.

Mmm... The above only implies that there is a reason for everything - it does not mean a chiseled in stone future. It's not what most people associate with the word "fate", but if you ever met someone with views close to yours you would not have to explain what that word means for you. The other person would know it by heart.

Because words are imprecise and rely heavily on mutually accepted associations and cultural traits, it can be hard to put your beliefs into words even when those beliefs are clear to you.

And spirituality does not have to be religious. Are you familiar with Dan Millman's books?

Very true. You could call my beliefs a belief in "fate" because it gives the illusion of a higher plan, one that many believe a God to impose upon the world. It also implies the theories of Karma. I see no spiritual force that dictate Karma, only logic. Good deeds and civility is often rewarded by returned civility and compassion. However as this relies upon individuals it is not perfectly predictable and tyhat's why "Karma" doesn't always work. So in some ways my beliefs relate tto the general definition of "Fate".

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Originally posted by TreXCrazy:
Honestly, there is the difference between Atheism and Agnosticism that I haven't found out. I need help with that one. I know what I believe, and it really is neither of them.

The difference is completely arbitrary, I assure you. There are so many definitions for each ideology that the faultline is pretty much evanescent at this point in time. I'd say most people are usually a compilation of everything, i.e. atheism, agnosticism, and nihilism.

But I'm not. I;m completely different. So its ok. My friend claims to be Agnostic.

If you say so. Only you can determine what you 'are' and what you 'aren't.'

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Originally posted by Oni:
Very true. You could call my beliefs a belief in "fate" because it gives the illusion of a higher plan, one that many believe a God to impose upon the world.

Some faiths put fate above the will of God(s) as something that existed independently and is not controlled by any higher power. It's a relatively modern invention to relay fate to some masterplan.

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It also implies the theories of Karma. I see no spiritual force that dictate Karma, only logic. Good deeds and civility is often rewarded by returned civility and compassion. However as this relies upon individuals it is not perfectly predictable and tyhat's why "Karma" doesn't always work. So in some ways my beliefs relate tto the general definition of "Fate".

Karma always works if you don't see it as getting good for good and bad for bad. This is not what the word is about, and its coverage is not restricted to the world of humans. Karma is like a hammer dropping on your toe - something happens and causes consequences. For example, your toe starts to hurt like hell. The bigger the hammer, the greater the pain. The assessment of the event being good or bad happens solely in your mind (you may think that someone up there tries to teach you a lesson, that you did something bad before, and so on - we are all good at reasoning). But the force of gravity doesn't even know that you exist, the hammer does not care what it hit, and your toe does not bother with emotional implications either.