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http://sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3023
We're All Prisoners, Now: US Citizens to be Required ''Clearance'' to Leave USA


International Politics October 26, 2006

Forget no-fly lists. If Uncle Sam gets its way, beginning on Jan. 14, 2007, we'll all be on no-fly lists, unless the government gives us permission to leave-or re-enter-the United States.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (HSA) has proposed that all airlines, cruise lines-even fishing boats-be required to obtain clearance for each passenger they propose taking into or out of the
United States.

It doesn't matter if you have a U.S. Passport - a "travel document" that now, absent a court order to the contrary, gives you a virtually unqualified right to enter or leave the United States, any time you
want. When the DHS system comes into effect next January, if the agency says "no" to a clearance request, or doesn't answer the request at all, you won't be permitted to enter-or leave-the United
States.

Consider what might happen if you're a U.S. passport holder on assignment in a country like Saudi Arabia. Your visa is about to expire, so you board your flight back to the United States. But wait! You can't get on, because you don't have permission from the HSA.
Saudi immigration officials are on hand to escort you to a squalid detention center, where you and others who are now effectively "stateless persons" are detained, potentially indefinitely, until their immigration status is sorted out.

Why might the HSA deny you permission to leave-or enter-the United States? No one knows, because the entire clearance procedure would be an administrative determination made secretly, with no right of
appeal. Naturally, the decision would be made without a warrant, without probable cause and without even any particular degree of suspicion. Basically, if the HSA decides it doesn't like you, you're a prisoner - either outside, or inside, the United States, whether or
not you hold a U.S. passport.

The U.S. Supreme Court has long recognized there is a constitutional right to travel internationally. Indeed, it has declared that the right to travel is "a virtually unconditional personal right." The
United States has also signed treaties guaranteeing "freedom of travel." So if these regulations do go into effect, you can expect a lengthy court battle, both nationally and internationally.

Think this can't happen? Think again. It's ALREADY happening. Earlier this year, HSA forbade airlines from transporting an 18-year-old a native-born U.S. citizen, back to the United States. The prohibition lasted nearly six months until it was finally lifted a few weeks ago. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are two countries in recent history that didn't allow their citizens to travel abroad without permission.
If these regulations go into effect, you can add the United States to this list.

For more information on this proposed regulation, see http://hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf.
 
Posts: 1514 | Location: Newark, DE USA | Registered: April 08, 2006Report This Post
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Shoot. I meant to put this in the General talk forum.
 
Posts: 1514 | Location: Newark, DE USA | Registered: April 08, 2006Report This Post
SID
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WOW Ames, this is going to affect so many. I was talking to a "wine" manager the other day about a position with an east coast company. One of the perks is the owners fly ya to France to learn about the wineries once a year. What do ya think is gonna happen with that?

While our constitution DOESN'T specifically mention travel abroad, how in the world can they enforce this? But come to think of it, our constitution is just a piece of paper anymore.

Thanks Ames for the information. We'll have to let TJ know about it.
 
Posts: 1494 | Registered: April 08, 2006Report This Post
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Next thing you know you won't be allowed in or out on bases of terms like "Subversive ideology" "Potential risk of undermining presidential authority" or "Unpatriotic"

any1 care to vote for Nader next time?


-----------------------------------
Our species needs, and deserves, a citizenry with minds wide awake and a basic understanding of how the world works. [Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World]
 
Posts: 330 | Location: Earth Orbit | Registered: April 05, 2006Report This Post
SID
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sorry Ames, but I must do this!

SD.....HI!!!! How ya been? Where ya been? How's Moms? Missed ya!

Yeah, things are getting crazier and crazier over here! The US Citizens are jumping through hoops and the bad guys keep walking around them. Kinda sad, ya know?

Good to see ya back!
 
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And WHO is going to be in charge of deciding about the MILLIONS of people who travel abroad every month?
 
Posts: 1514 | Location: Newark, DE USA | Registered: April 08, 2006Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ShadowDragon:
Next thing you know you won't be allowed in or out on bases of terms like "Subversive ideology" "Potential risk of undermining presidential authority" or "Unpatriotic"

any1 care to vote for Nader next time?


That's how it started with the Iron Curtain.

I voted for Nader this last time!
 
Posts: 1514 | Location: Newark, DE USA | Registered: April 08, 2006Report This Post
SID
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one by one, they are whittling away our rights.....all for the safety of our country. We ALL do our patriotic duty and comply.

The sad thing about it is the terrorists will just find another way to hurt us. They always manage to get around any obstacle put in their way.
 
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