How can you believe that more than one religion is true at the same time? That must come with a lot of insecurity in having faith that your religion is true. That also might say that religion is relative to each individual. If that is your argument than how do you figure out which one is right for you? By just simply picking the one you like best or is the easiest? Also, say christianity is right for one person, but he Bible clearly says that christianity is the only right religion in John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me". In this verse the Me=Jesus Christ and the Father=the dominating God. If you believe that God is the only true God, and that Jesus is the only true religion, how can wicca be true at the same time for your friend? There simply can not be multiple religions that are true at the same time.

I ask, how can one believe that there is only one, true religion when there are so many differing views? It seems to me that if there were to be one, true, religion then it would make itself undoubtedly known to all. You quote the Bible as upholding this "truth" but what of the Torah upholding the views of the Jews? What of the Koran being the one "truth" for the Muslims? What of the Vedas for the Hindus? What of all the other sacred texts that support the various religious beliefs? Everyone finds a different truth. Is it so hard to believe that there is only one Spirit, one Diety, one Universal Being that has no gender and no true name, but instead hundreds upon thousands of names? You say it is insecurity, I say that it is the opposite. What can be more secure than holding true to your own beliefs while recognising and accepting this same truth in others? My truth is this: There is one Spirit. This Spirit goes by many names and is worshipped in many different ways, but it is the same Spirit that we all worship. This is not insecurity, this is pure acceptance.

Too many people choose to look at each religion as a seperate entity. I see them all as one and the same.

Seeking the Way

"A Voyager approached Siji Tzu one day with the question, "I seek inner truth. I am not asking for the answer, but for the direction to start. Will you help me Master Siji Tzu?"
Siji Tzu told him, "Follow the river north for three days, there you will find a ledge that hangs over the valley. Meditate there three days."

The voyager returned nine days later with no insights. Siji Tzu instructed him to now follow the sun west for three days. There he will find the edge of the desert. He also instructed him to meditate there for three days.

Again, the voyager returned nine days later with no insights. Siji Tzu said, "You must now travel east to the lake's edge. It will be three days to get there. Meditate for three days."

The result was the same nine days later. Siji Tzu finally pointed the voyager south on the river for three days. There the voyager meditated for three days in a forest grove. He returned to Siji Tzu and asked, "For the past 36 days, I have traveled and meditated where you directed me. And still I have not seen the Way. What was I supposed to see?"

Siji Tzu laughed and said, " You told me you didn't want an answer. I didn't send you on these trips to find a specific clue. I sent you to be alone with your mind and silence it for a month. Finding the Way is up to you. Where you go or how you achieve it has nothing to do with others' thoughts. You will not find it if you listen to others' directions. You know this now, after traveling for 36 days. Now, come back to me when you want to share your adventures, rather than asking for them."

Master Siji Tzu

quote:

Originally posted by moonbaby92:
How can you believe that more than one religion is true at the same time? That must come with a lot of insecurity in having faith that your religion is true.

No, insecurity is when a person thumps his/her chest and goes out of the way trying to convert everybody and their dog to "the only true religion." As in convincing others you convince yourself. Accepting other paths as valid and meaningful ones means feeling perfectly secure about your own beliefs and seeing the bigger picture.

quote:

That also might say that religion is relative to each individual. If that is your argument than how do you figure out which one is right for you? By just simply picking the one you like best or is the easiest?

"Simply" is not an option when it comes to choosing the path that is right for you. Instead, you get to do a lot of research and inner "digging" before you even realize what you are looking for. And I don't understand what a religion that is easy for you means. It's not like you are looking for a job with the less amount of hassle, is it? If you've found your path, there is nothing difficult about it because you don't see it from that point of view. Your whole perception changes.

quote:

Also, say christianity is right for one person, but he Bible clearly says that christianity is the only right religion in John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me". In this verse the Me=Jesus Christ and the Father=the dominating God.

Um, no. They are not separate beings, rather they are different representations of the same being. What Christianity has as a concept of Trinity, is a simplified version of earlier Mesopotamian beliefs where God can assume any possible appearance, name, and functions, but all deities and all their activity are manifestations of the same Divine Being.

quote:

If you believe that God is the only true God, and that Jesus is the only true religion, how can wicca be true at the same time for your friend? There simply can not be multiple religions that are true at the same time.

There is no such thing as a false God or a false religion. All of them look at the same creative force, the Way, God, whatever you prefer to call it through different frame of concepts and symbols. But the subject of observation, the final destiny is still the same - being the one with the God. How you get there is up to you, it's not the path that matters. There are sects founded for monetary or ego-satisfying purposes, but those got nothing to do with religious/spiritual matters.

As for the Bible or any other sacred book, keep in mind that it is an intricate mix of deep truths, highly spiritual concepts and down-to-earth politics, with the latter getting there from centuries of using religion as a tool of control and submission.

moonbaby92, you have received answers to your questions. Now it is up to you to find your own Truth and go on your own path to enlightenment.

May Blessings of Peace, Love, and Acceptance pour down upon you.

OK I WANNA SAY THAT A WAY TO BELIEVE THAT ALL RELIGIONS ARE CORRECT IS TO THINK... IF EVERYONE FOLLOWS THE SAME GOD... JUST IN DIFFERENT WAYS... THERE IS A FORCE OUT THERE AND WE ALL WORSHIP THE SAME FORCE... WE JUST HAVE DIFFERENT WAYS TO DO IT AND DIFFERENT BELIEFS... IS THAT NOT CORRECT??? WHO AGREES?

HAHA NVM.. U GUYS GOT TO IT BEFORE I DID... I SHOULD READ THE REPLIES FIRST FROM NO ON... AM I CORECT? WHO AGREES? LOLZ PEACE

quote:

How can you believe that more than one religion is true at the same time? That must come with a lot of insecurity in having faith that your religion is true. That also might say that religion is relative to each individual. If that is your argument than how do you figure out which one is right for you? By just simply picking the one you like best or is the easiest? Also, say christianity is right for one person, but he Bible clearly says that christianity is the only right religion in John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me". In this verse the Me=Jesus Christ and the Father=the dominating God. If you believe that God is the only true God, and that Jesus is the only true religion, how can wicca be true at the same time for your friend? There simply can not be multiple religions that are true at the same time.

Why can there not be multiple religions that are true? Is it so improbable to believe that there are more things in this life that we cannot begin to comprehend? Is religion/god so limited as to fit into what the human mind grasps as right/wrong?
I am totally in awe, once again, with CoffeeOwl's reply since that is what I thought when I first read your thread. There is more to religion than just picking the "faith" you like best. It should be more important to you than such a simple choice, as the doctrine/tenents of your faith are/should be what shape your life. I guess my point is that I feel that god cannot be shoved into a box of religion. If you believe strongly in the Christian faith and your best friend is a Wiccan, you can both share in the worship of god together; don't try so hard to make religion logical... reason and religion hold little company. Maybe I can make more sense when I've slept...

to CoffeeOwl, my thoughts exactly. People believe in more than one god/dess because it's easier to relate to them. Some might pray to a god of war like Mars to fight their inner battles. Or a goddess like Aphrodite to try find love. I believe that all god/desses are really one Spirit without gender. And I'm not the only one who believes it as others on this thread have said. Can't you just accept that some people don't believe the same thing as you? Can you just respect others beliefs without trying to indermine them? Do you even realise that you probably insulted just about everyone on this board by calling us insecure becasue we don't all follow a dogmatic religion?

quote:

Originally posted by TribalRaven:
to CoffeeOwl, my thoughts exactly. People believe in more than one god/dess because it's easier to relate to them. Some might pray to a god of war like Mars to fight their inner battles. Or a goddess like Aphrodite to try find love. I believe that all god/desses are really one Spirit without gender. And I'm not the only one who believes it as others on this thread have said. Can't you just accept that some people don't believe the same thing as you? Can you just respect others beliefs without trying to indermine them? Do you even realise that you probably insulted just about everyone on this board by calling us insecure becasue we don't all follow a dogmatic religion?

I'm really sorry if I offended all of you guys. I didn't mean to. I guess if someone posted a thread like this, I would be offended too. I didn't word my question right I guess and it came out as an insult. I really do love all of you guys on here. I just kinda got frustrated and posted something without thinking. I'm still struggling with the question I asked but maybe I just need wisdom from my God. Don't be mad at me I wasn't trying to say that you guys are insecure, I just mean that if I believed that all of the religions were true, I would have major insecurity in myself that I put faith in the right religion for me. I mean what if you feel that Buddhism is right for you and all the time the right one was Islam? I guess it wouldn't matter then, if all of the religions were true, you could never go wrong with any religion because who is to dictate if your religion is right or wrong for you? If that is true than, to me religon would have no meaning at all really. Anyone off the streets could make up something, claim it to be true, and then believe that in it for themselves. They wouldn't need proof because they made it up for themselves. I have no proof that what I believe is true I just have faith in what I believe so I guess they wouldn't need any physical proof to believe it either. Religion is so confusing. It's like I'm typing and with each word it becomes more of a riddle. I'm not trying to convert anyone on here. I just want to understand what so many people on here believe in so passionately. I know I did come on to this forum to be converted and I don't expect anyone else to be converted according to what I say on here.

Sorry again guys, I hope you can all forgive me if anything I said offended any of you in any way, I don't mean to at all.

quote:

Originally posted by moonbaby92:
I guess it wouldn't matter then, if all of the religions were true, you could never go wrong with any religion because who is to dictate if your religion is right or wrong for you? If that is true than, to me religon would have no meaning at all really. Anyone off the streets could make up something, claim it to be true, and then believe that in it for themselves. They wouldn't need proof because they made it up for themselves.

I think you missed the Point of MommyMoonBaby's story.

It doesn't matter what WE believe. It matters what You believe. If you believe that Christianity is right for you, then go, live it, learn it, and love it. All too many people get caught up in NEEDING everyone else to Validate their faith for them. I can understand being unsure of your path, and there is nothing wrong with that. If you need proof that your path is the "right one" then go out into the world, talk to people (WITHOUT trying to convert)[not that you are] and ask them the right questions. It's not What Proof do you have, it's How does this Path make you feel.

It's whether or not do YOU feel the same feeling as they do.

I'll give you an example. When I have just finished Ritual, whether it be in a Coven setting, or by myself I feel ALIVE. During the Invocations and Evocations I feel Warm, Safe and Loved. I get a warm feeling, like being cuddled, like when I was little and had a bad dream. Every time, it reminds me WHY this is my Path. Because I didn't get that feeling in a Christian Church, (I attended Church for my parents, for 14 years, in 5 or more denominations.) I'm not saying that because I don't get that warm feeling, that it can't be right for you... Just that it isn't right for me.

Do you get that feeling from Services at your Church? Or do you feel bored, and want to balance your check book? Do you go because you WANT to, or because you think you are supposed to.

The answers to these questions will tell you what you need to know. If the answer is No, you don't get that feeling, then maybe you need to look at other paths. No ONE Path is going to be right for everyone, and no one can tell you what Will be right for you. You just have to learn to accecpt that.

I personally was not offended by your post, so if you have need to talk to someone, one on one, Feel free to Private Message me. Okay?

You must choose what feels right to you

moonbaby, methinks you are focusing too much on wrong and right. Those are nothing but figments of your imagination and hold no universal value. What is right for somebody here might be completely wrong for you. As we were trying to point out for you before, there is no such thing as the right religion in general, it's always very personal, very subjective. What is right for me is relying on change and the fact that it never fails to happen when I least expect it. It makes me feel secure and as oxymoronic as it may sound, grounded. Would it be a desirable state of mind for you? Not necessarily. I understand that you feel confused, but you are just starting on your journey, so don't hit your head against the wall too hard. It takes a huge leap from the point where only one right religion exists in your mind to the point where there is no right or wrong. Once you get there, the view will be much more clear and serene.

BTW, "anyone off the streets" would not be able to create a coherent religion to save his/her life, a sect maybe but not a religion with a strong spiritual component. And if you look attentively at such creations, you will notice cracks and flows right away. Spirituality comes through personal experience and inner growth. Those don't mix with "making up" very well, although there is nothing wrong with adding your own creative spin to knowledge that feels right for you. Being creative is merely a tool, not an ultimate goal.

As for proofs, if you are seeking for them as a mean to validate your path, then you are walking the one that is wrong for _you_ and it is time to look into something else. All proof that you might ever need is within you, there is nothing to seek outside.

And no, you did not sound offensive at all, so no worries here.

Wow guys! You really are awesome. I love being on here and talking about religion. I just want to let you know that I'm totally not confused about what I believe I just wondered about what others believe, being the nosy person that I am . As for needing people to be converted in order to validate my faith, this is completely not what I believe. I believe that if a heart is destined to be converted my God will work in their hearts. I realize that not all will believe what I do and I am not so insecure that I'm not satisfied until everyone around does. My God commands me to bring the Gospel of christianity to everyone but He is the one that saves people. I realize that you guys don't believe in the what the Bible says, because why would you if you are not a christian right? and I dont blame you. I just love you guys a lot, even though I don't know you personally, I just have a love for all of mankind. Christians will be known by their love because I worship a God who is love. Because of that love, I am concerned for the souls of mankind as well but I know I can not save anyone but just to shed some light about the salvation of their souls and show them the path to God. I guess you could call me close minded because I just can't accept the fact of all religions being relative to the person that believes them. That sound selfish but I can't word a different way. It is much easier to explain this in person so I don't sound like that.

The part where I'm stuck is that because religions contradict each other on issues, it doesn't seem possible for them all to be true. For example, when you die, some religions state that when we die we are reincarnated according to the life we have previously lived, while some say the well known heaven and hell idea, which I personally believe in. And then some religons even differ on how to get to heaven by deeds or by faith. How can one person continue to be reincarnated and another go to heaven or hell? I guess I don't need to understand this because I am content with my religion, I am sort of challenging other religons out of curiosity. I don't want to sound selfish or nosy. If I some off that way that's not what I'm tryng to do. Your religion is your business and obviously not mine. I just wanted to raise a question. And there it is.

But actually, if you truely study the basics of the various religions, they DON'T contradict. Too many people get caught up in the details. The details were laid out by man, not by Spirit. Man has decided what will or won't get you into Heaven. Man has decided on what the Bible will say. Man has decided what is right or wrong. Spirit just wants you to follow your heart.

All the faiths have things in common. They all say that when you die, your soul goes someplace. Many call it different things. There is Heaven, the Summerlands, Nirvana and many more. Yes, some say you must reincarnate for various reasons but it isn't for eternity. You reincarnate until your lessons are learned and then you rejoin with Spirit. I believe that we make our own afterlife. What you believe is where you go.

My cousin has a very unique outlook on this. She has been blind since birth. She has never seen the world as we do. She is a very devout Christian. She also practices Reiki. She's helped many family members cross to the other side. What she sees when she's aiding in these crossings totally makes up for what she doesn't see in this world. She has seen the angels come to take our family members home and she can describe them in colorful detail. She also believes in reincarnation. She believes that being "born again" is just that... being reincarnated. She believes that if you reject God's Love in your final moments (and she doesn't mean not accepting Christ into your life like the evangelists will have you believe, but rather when it is time to go and you refuse and instead hang onto your earthly life, THAT is rejecting God) you MUST be reborn into another life to try to reach enlightenment once again. THAT is "Born Again".

I feel that modern religion has bastardized true faith. Good deeds will not get you into Heaven and neither will accepting Christ as Lord and Saviour if you refuse to go when your time has come. The only thing that will return you to your Diety is accepting enlightenment and learning your lessons. If you feel you haven't learned your lessons then you can return to this plane to try again. If you feel your lessons have been learned then you can return to Spirit. If, when your time comes, you know with all of your being that you have done what is necessary then you will go to your idea of Heaven but if you hold doubt at all, you have to come back to try again. This isn't a punishment, this is a learning experience.

My advice to you is to not get caught up in the details. If God wanted us all to be Christian then God would make it apparent that Christianity is what we have to believe. Don't blindly follow the Bible. It may have been inspired by God, but God isn't the one that actually wrote it. Man did and man has been known to get things wrong. The Bible is a good reference tool but shouldn't be followed word for word. And remember that you don't have to accept our beliefs. It's what's in your heart that God is concerned with. I promise you that a heavenly tally isn't kept of how many people you "shed light" on. If that were the case then what of all of the people in different countries that have never even heard the words "Jesus Christ" because they haven't had the opportunity due to government cencorship? I really doubt that a God of love would automatically bind them to Hell. It's what they believe in their hearts that determines their final destination.

So, yeah... follow your heart. That's what we do.


P.S. Witchy posted a very interesting story on here a little while back and I loved it so much, I put it in my MySpace blog. Maybe it will help your understanding a little bit. Here's the link:

http://godsmack.groupee.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/57510793...041054581#1041054581