quote:

Originally posted by Bam:
Donald Trump is not an economist and "that chick on Bill Maher" isn't a reliable source. A reliable source is a reputable website link, news article or video giving statements from reputable economists and experts.

Eh...I know he's not an economist, but he's definitely more informed about the countries economic situation than we are: he's a freaking multi-billionaire.

Go through this years season of the Bill Maher show and I'm sure you'll find it.

You seem to be missing the point. As a presenter of information, as you are doing, it is your responsibility to provide reliable, adequate sources for your information. Otherwise it is not fact and is actually opinion. Telling your audience to go look it up for themselves presents you as a farce of a presenter unable to source your own "information" thereby rendering your argument worthless and invalid. Any journalist, instructor and/or public speaker could tell you this.

Without sources, you lack all credibility.

^^^ Exactly. ^^^

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Originally posted by AishaFox:

quote:

Originally posted by CoffeeOwl:


And Aisha, if the president or someone else up there would tell you that things are really, really bad, that the country is still going down and no one knows where exactly the bottom is, what would you gain from it? It's not like real help for small people would follow such (or any other) statement.

Closure. Either way there is no help for small people, but at least there is the truth to a degree. Better than them every day changing their minds on when it is will get better.

Just a thought, but its not just unemployment or one thing in particular. The public is still being sold on the idea that because our economy is "so" bad it justifies hastily passing a stimulus bill and spending billions of dollars. Not to mention the money spent on bailing out companies. Its all a part of the bigger picture. Obviously things will take time to turn around, but the money being spent is only getting worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Bam:
You seem to be missing the point. As a presenter of information, as you are doing, it is your responsibility to provide reliable, adequate sources for your information. Otherwise it is not fact and is actually opinion. Telling your audience to go look it up for themselves presents you as a farce of a presenter unable to source your own "information" thereby rendering your argument worthless and invalid. Any journalist, instructor and/or public speaker could tell you this.

Without sources, you lack all credibility.

Down load this season of the Bill Maher show and watch it for yourself. There are plenty of analysts on there who suggest that we are in a depression.

*facepalm*

Nihilis, I'm done with you. You obviously don't get the point. It is YOUR responsibility to provide ME with the proof that YOU claim is out there. It is NOT MY responsibility to go looking for it on your word. You have failed. You are a joke. Your argument is invalid. Run along and let the grown-ups talk.

No, it's not my responsibility to do anything. I'm not going to waste my time going back through all of those damned episodes just to appease some person's ego.

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Originally posted by metal chick:
Just a thought, but its not just unemployment or one thing in particular. The public is still being sold on the idea that because our economy is "so" bad it justifies hastily passing a stimulus bill and spending billions of dollars. Not to mention the money spent on bailing out companies. Its all a part of the bigger picture. Obviously things will take time to turn around, but the money being spent is only getting worse.

No, it's not just about unemployment, but unemployment (or lack of work for those who are self-employed) is what hits people most directly. What the whole situation is used for is a different story. We talked about it in the past, didn't we? When the bailout plan was still fresh and hot? It didn't look good back then, it is not helping the economy much now. Saved banks are not allowed to return money that they now can return. Corporations are going belly up. Government money are wasted on remodeling a house with a rotten core.

quote:

Originally posted by Nihilis:
No, it's not my responsibility to do anything. I'm not going to waste my time going back through all of those damned episodes just to appease some person's ego.

Right. When unable to support the statement, turn personal. Should work.

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Originally posted by CoffeeOwl:

quote:

Originally posted by metal chick:
Just a thought, but its not just unemployment or one thing in particular. The public is still being sold on the idea that because our economy is "so" bad it justifies hastily passing a stimulus bill and spending billions of dollars. Not to mention the money spent on bailing out companies. Its all a part of the bigger picture. Obviously things will take time to turn around, but the money being spent is only getting worse.

No, it's not just about unemployment, but unemployment (or lack of work for those who are self-employed) is what hits people most directly. What the whole situation is used for is a different story. We talked about it in the past, didn't we? When the bailout plan was still fresh and hot? It didn't look good back then, it is not helping the economy much now. Saved banks are not allowed to return money that they now can return. Corporations are going belly up. Government money are wasted on remodeling a house with a rotten core.

Now when it comes closure thing their predicitions aren't doing much when they change their minds the next day, which is why i would rather have them say they dont' know and report on the whole stock market thing like they normally do. There is some truth in admiting you don't know.
Moving on...
Then how are things still in a recession? According to the facts we are not, the facts that the goverment provides. I am not trying to sound like some conspiracy theorists but something is not adding up here. If everything is still going belly up when supposly the worest is behind us? Yeah sorry not buying the spoon feed facts here. And i know the goverment does the whole protect us from ourselves thing. Again might just be and my little mind and might just be my state got hit far wrose and just taking longer to get out.



Nihilis, my dear, please source.

AishaFox, forgive me but I'm confused as to what you're talking about. (Could just be the combination of baby-brain and migraine medication.) According to the figures available on the Bureau of Economic Analysis website, we ARE in a recession and they openly admit to that. Our GNP is down, though slowly trying to come back up. What we are NOT in is a *depression*.

Why do I have the feeling that something is being discussed here that I'm missing?

We only know we are not in a depression cause they say so (different topic entirely on the truth of goverment). But mostly i was just asking if anybody else thought this recession was wrose than being told. And then the whole uemployment thing, which have somewhat agreed to take with a grain of salt. I was never meaning to claim we were in a depression. Which reading over i should i stated that earlier and i didn't. Sorry about that.
Just more confusing when people say things are getting "better" But yet everything is still going failing.

Who's "they"?

I know we're not in a depression going by the definition of what a depression is and what our current GDP is. I looked at the numbers myself rather than going by what some muppet flaps on about on TV. I consider it "getting better" because we are only down 5.7% in the first quarter of '09 rather than 6.3%, like we were in the last quarter of '08. Our international transactions deficit decreased by $53 Billion in the first quarter of this year (from -$154.9 billion 4Q 2008 to -$101.5 billion 1Q 2009).

It's going to take a very long time to climb out of this hole, just as we didn't land in it overnight. Things might still be falling, to you, but they are falling slower than they were, if that makes sense. Eventually the fall will stop and we'll start actually climbing again. Like a car going full speed forward, you have to slow down to a stop before you can go in reverse.

And I'm still not sure how much more honest the government could be with you over the whole thing. The numbers are quite plainly published publicly for anyone to look at and see. It's not like they're hiding numbers and saying "Oh, well, it's not as good as it could be but you let us worry about that." They're putting it all out there in the open. You just have to go find it.... http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/glance.htm

quote:

Originally posted by AishaFox:
Now when it comes closure thing their predictions aren't doing much when they change their minds the next day, which is why i would rather have them say they don't know and report on the whole stock market thing like they normally do. There is some truth in admitting you don't know.

If the government ever admitted that they have no idea when it is going to be over, they would cause panic. Panic would crush the stock market which is fragile as is. Crushed market would cause a new wave of layoffs because the economy is driven by predictions and emotions. You would get your closure, and many others would get their pink slips. The government doesn't change their mind to annoy you, they base it on the available data and on what portion of it they can mention and still keep things quiet. Those who want to know more, can find the info, and the government makes this data easier to find for the public through data.gov.

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We only know we are not in a depression cause they say so (different topic entirely on the truth of government). But mostly i was just asking if anybody else thought this recession was worse than being told.

I don't pay much attention to who in the government says what on economic matters. They are not economists themselves, they do not necessarily pick up the best of the best as their economic advisors either. U.S. Department of Commerce is a better source, and you can cross-check their data with Moody's economy.com that is an independent researchers. Moody's says the same thing: it's getting a little better on average. That does not mean it's getting better everywhere or for everyone:

http://www.economy.com/dismal/...my-hp-dismal-article

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I was never meaning to claim we were in a depression. Which reading over i should i stated that earlier and i didn't. Sorry about that.

Depression claims were not yours, you don't need to apologize for anything.

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Just more confusing when people say things are getting "better" But yet everything is still going failing.

The fall is slowing down if you go by the available numbers; this means that the bottom is near and once the economy reaches it, it will start to move up. It's a common dynamics of economic slowdowns. Established businesses will continue to die even when the economy starts to show positive dynamics if they didn't weather well through lean times.

This is true. And it is sad to think that the government cant be truthful and i know the reason why. I know eventually things will bounce back i have no doubt in that, but when things do finally get back on track the changes will be great will they be for the good? Can't really say will they be for the bad? Who knowns. I still want to get everybodys thoughts on this. Like how they are dealing and etc...
And i love others sourcing things so i can gain more information, so source away no matter what it is.