By MICHAEL KUNZELMAN, Associated Press WriterWed Dec 26, 6:59 PM ET

The National Rifle Association has hired private investigators to find hundreds of people whose firearms were seized by city police in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, according to court papers filed this week.

The NRA is trying to locate gun owners for a federal lawsuit that the lobbying group filed against Mayor Ray Nagin and Police Superintendent Warren Riley over the city's seizure of firearms after the Aug. 29, 2005, hurricane.

In the lawsuit, the NRA and the Second Amendment Foundation claim the city violated gun owners' constitutional right to bear arms and left them "at the mercy of roving gangs, home invaders, and other criminals" after Katrina.

The NRA says the city seized more than 1,000 guns that weren't part of any criminal investigation after the hurricane. Police have said they took only guns that had been stolen or found in abandoned homes.

NRA lawyer Daniel Holliday said investigators have identified about 300 of the gun owners and located about 75 of them. Some of them could be called to testify during a trial, he added.

"Finding these folks has been a nightmare," Holliday said. "That is really the guts of our case — to establish that there was indeed a pattern of the police going out and taking people's guns without any legal reason to do so."

In April 2006, police made about 700 firearms available for owners to claim if they could present a bill of sale or an affidavit with the weapon's serial number.

An attorney for the city and a police department spokesman didn't return a reporter's telephone calls Wednesday.

Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Bellevue, Wash.-based Second Amendment Foundation, said the police department has returned only about 100 of the 1,000 seized guns.

"Obviously, we don't expect the city to find everybody. We only wanted to see a good-faith effort, and that's what the city didn't do," Gottlieb added. "It's a bad example to let them get away with it."

In court papers filed Monday, NRA attorneys say finding the gun owners has been difficult because the storm has scattered so many residents.

New Orleans had an estimated 455,000 residents before Katrina, but less than two-thirds of that number live there now.

The NRA is asking for a delay in the trial, set to begin Feb. 19, saying they need more time to find gun owners. U.S. District Judge Carl Barbier had not yet ruled on the request Wednesday.

People think and say what a mistake Katrina was and OH how the government dropped the ball. I say everything went according to plan and it was a beautiful training exercise.

quote:

Originally posted by IVXX:
People think and say what a mistake Katrina was and OH how the government dropped the ball. I say everything went according to plan and it was a beautiful training exercise.

Then it's obvious that you don't know the bullsh!t that residents have had to go through. The way Katrina was handled, not just in NO, but all over the Gulf Coast was pathetic, to say the least. And I will hold that opinion until my dying day. I saw it, first hand... not little reports on TV or little quips written in newspapers and online. I actually drove through the wreckage in Pascagoula, Gautier, Biloxi, Gulfport and Mobile. I took pictures. I dug through the rubble to salvage bits of a life past and I stood in line at the Singing River Mall to get my shots to protect me while I was walking and digging through sewage. I watched a cop shoot and kill someone's pet in the middle of the street for no other reason than it was running loose. I watched my mother breakdown and bawl at the site of seeing her childhood neighborhood reduced to nothing but bits of lumber and garbage.

I saw it. I experienced it. The government screwed up.

Unless a person actually lived there-- was from there-- and experienced it in person, there is absolutely no way that person could ever understand the true, soul-wrenching devestation the spirit feels.

It was a tragedy that happened, the govt screwed up on many levels. Period.

My neighborhood didn't even get water and MRE's dropped until 9 (NINE) days after the hurricane hit! Hell, when tragedies happen half-way across the world, we are there in 48 hours lending assistance. It's a sorry, sorry situation all the way around.

Mama and Bam, I think T.J. didnt mean that literally. I'm sorry you both had to go through that. I seriously hope that whoever gets elected in the next election and whoever is in charge of FEMA take necessary plans to be sure this never happens again in our country.

I also worry about the people who still live there though because it just does not seem like New Orleans can be safe until they rebuild the design of the city.

Mama, how have you been? I haven't seen you around for a while. I hope your doing well.

quote:

Originally posted by Bam:

quote:

Originally posted by IVXX:
People think and say what a mistake Katrina was and OH how the government dropped the ball. I say everything went according to plan and it was a beautiful training exercise.

Then it's obvious that you don't know the bullsh!t that residents have had to go through. The way Katrina was handled, not just in NO, but all over the Gulf Coast was pathetic, to say the least. And I will hold that opinion until my dying day. I saw it, first hand... not little reports on TV or little quips written in newspapers and online. I actually drove through the wreckage in Pascagoula, Gautier, Biloxi, Gulfport and Mobile. I took pictures. I dug through the rubble to salvage bits of a life past and I stood in line at the Singing River Mall to get my shots to protect me while I was walking and digging through sewage. I watched a cop shoot and kill someone's pet in the middle of the street for no other reason than it was running loose. I watched my mother breakdown and bawl at the site of seeing her childhood neighborhood reduced to nothing but bits of lumber and garbage.

I saw it. I experienced it. The government screwed up.

See again you say "the goverment screwed up" so it's obvious you missed the point of my post entirely. I'm not saying people didn't suffer or go through hell and are still going through hell. My point has nothing to do with what they went through. It has to do with why they went through it.

I see "the government screwed up" as a nice cover story for the government itself. The last time they "screwed up" that big was 9/11/01.

There was how many days warning that Katrina would hit?? Not only did they not evacuate everyone when it's well documented they had the means but it also took how many days for a response and rescue effort?? How many days did they have to at least mount a rescue mission that should have rolled into action that day??

That's my point. There was too much warning Katrina was baring down on New Orleans and if not enough time to evacuate everyone there was more than enough time to be ready with a rescue mission but that didn't happen.

It was what?? 3 days until the military and FEMA finally moved in. Enough time for Katrina to totally devastate the area and for the population left to go into chaos....... anarchy if you will. Then when the conditions were "right" military and FEMA was sent in to regain control of the area. A "live" exercise.

Look at all they did. You mentioned one yourself. People under control on a line waiting for a government shot. Jackie's OP of guns being seized. Let mass chaos break out and then see how good the troops and FEMA can gain control and bring about Martial Law.

If you want I can go into the power FEMA has in a situation like that. Most people think FEMA has no authority or power and they are dead wrong. FEMA doesn't even need something on the scale of Katrina to happen to roll in and use their power. Katrina was a prefect way to test how affective FEMA uses that power.

What happen in New Orleans was wrong. I feel sorry for all those who suffered and continue to suffer. However I don't buy into the governments story that they simply screwed up. The billions and billions that are spent on the military and FEMA should easily be brought into question. We're simply going to let the government spend all this money and then when 9/11 or Katrina happens we just say, "OH the government screwed up big time"?? The money spent dictates the screws ups shouldn't be so big if they are to happen at all.

You are right I myself was not in New Orleans but the girl I was dating at the time was deployed to New Orleans with the National Guard so I'm going off more than little reports on TV or little quips written in newspapers and online. Again when people say the government screwed up. I say it was played off or meant to seem that way when along it was a training exercise that went according to plan.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: IVXX,

Take a breath ya'll.

Bam...Momma...I'm sorry that you and yours had to go thru that.

TJ has a valid point. The government is hiding behind the "ooppss we screwed up" excuse. We can help other countries in a matter of hours but it took them days to do anything for their own citizens. It was NOT a mistake..it was planned.

And the point of such planning would be?.. No, it does not look like an honest mistake or a screw-up, too much of horrendous details that I heard from those affected, but I fail to see a point of doing all that on purpose.

quote:

Originally posted by CoffeeOwl:
And the point of such planning would be?.. No, it does not look like an honest mistake or a screw-up, too much of horrendous details that I heard from those affected, but I fail to see a point of doing all that on purpose.

The point is simple. To see how affective control can be gained over a city or even an entire county in such a situation.

The military and FEMA run "live" exercises in which they use actors to be the citizen of the town they're taking control of and instituting martial law. Now here's the ultimate exercise. It's not even a "live" exercise, it's reality. A quote from 9/11 comes to mind. "Is this real world or exercise??"

T. You're starting to sound like Mel Gibson's character in Conspiracy Theory. Seriously. Pretty soon you're going to be hiding inside a house with all the windows boarded up, 15 locks on the door (complete with beer bottle on the handle), an elaborate alarm and surveillance system and 5 different escape routes planned.... watch yourself, man.

Invading the city with military and police to the point of saturation, raiding houses, and herding people in lines does not constitute gaining control. Providing more ground for violating civil rights - yes, absolutely, but any disastrous situation will do that. And martial law was never declared in New Orleans.

quote:

Originally posted by Bam:
T. You're starting to sound like Mel Gibson's character in Conspiracy Theory. Seriously. Pretty soon you're going to be hiding inside a house with all the windows boarded up, 15 locks on the door (complete with beer bottle on the handle), an elaborate alarm and surveillance system and 5 different escape routes planned.... watch yourself, man.

Really?? Attacking the messenger and not the message does not address the post. Like Jackie said how quick do we get relief to other nations?? "The government screwed up big time." If you want to believe that by all means it's your right. However I don't. Ask yourself Bam, what good are the billions of dollars that are poured into FEMA if the Federal Emergency Management Agency can't even manage an emergency?? Take a look into FEMA and see the powers they can wield, then let me know if you still buy into the "OH we screwed up" excuse.

Also nobody is going to question why people were left in the path of that storm when there was more than enough time to get them out. I mean come on. New Orleans is already below sea level so how could they not see a disaster of that magnitude coming. With the power FEMA can wield they could have put New Orleans on lock down days before Katrina hit and got everyone out but they didn't.

There's things already in motion in this country that could very well mean the controlling of thousands of people for dissent. Look into things like the North America Union. Look how we condemned Sadam for human rights violations but we look the other way when it comes to China. Looking the other way when it comes to China is helping destroy the U.S. economy. More and more corporations are moving the manufacturing to China for cheap labor, huge tax breaks and huge profit.

Do you think plans like this just get swept under the rug and no one thinks about them ever again?? I'm not nor do I ever plan to hide anywhere. The point is to make people aware and be a voice of dissent. You can't do that when hiding. Also if I was going to hide, I wouldn't have my name associated with the biggest documentary out there to question 9/11. I wouldn't do anything I do as of late since it all speaks out against the government. Hiding has never been nor is it an option anymore. However if it makes you feel better to make fun of me instead of taking a look at what's really going on around you, that is also your right.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: IVXX,

quote:

Originally posted by CoffeeOwl:
Invading the city with military and police to the point of saturation, raiding houses, and herding people in lines does not constitute gaining control. Providing more ground for violating civil rights - yes, absolutely, but any disastrous situation will do that. And martial law was never declared in New Orleans.

Curfews, gun confiscations, lines to get shots, food etc provided from the government, the military doing the job of the police. What else would you call it?? Just cause they never declared it doesn't mean it wasn't happening.

They're ready to put as many troops in and violate as many rights as it takes to gain control. Are you saying they never gained control of New Orleans??

State of emergency. And that's different from martial law despite similarities. And FEMA won't lift a finger until the state of emergency is declared and help from them is officially requested.

I meant to ask and keep forgetting: when did FEMA or military showed wonders of mobility and effectiveness handling disaster recovery outside of US? I never paid much attention to that, and quick googling is not helping.

Don't look into how FEMA provides international help cause they don't. How quick though do we spring into action to help a foreign nations in time of crisis. Also a state of emergency doesn't have to be anywhere near a Katrina for FEMA to go into action. It can be a small as a snow storm and Congress has no power to review the decision for 6 months.