http://www.glennbeck.com/conte...s/article/196/26808/

The Letter:

June 17, 2009 - 10:36 ET

I got a letter from a woman in Arizona. She writes an open letter to our nation's leadership: I'm a home grown American citizen, 53, registered Democrat all my life. Before the last presidential election I registered as a Republican because I no longer felt the Democratic Party represents my views or works to pursue issues important to me. Now I no longer feel the Republican Party represents my views or works to pursue issues important to me. The fact is I no longer feel any political party or representative in Washington represents my views or works to pursue the issues important to me. There must be someone. Please tell me who you are. Please stand up and tell me that you are there and that you're willing to fight for our Constitution as it was written. Please stand up now. You might ask yourself what my views and issues are that I would horribly feel so disenfranchised by both major political parties. What kind of nut job am I? Will you please tell me?
Well, these are briefly my views and issues for which I seek representation:
One, illegal immigration. I want you to stop coddling illegal immigrants and secure our borders. Close the underground tunnels. Stop the violence and the trafficking in drugs and people. No amnesty, not again. Been there, done that, no resolution. P.S., I'm not a racist. This isn't to be confused with legal immigration.
Two, the TARP bill, I want it repealed and I want no further funding supplied to it. We told you no, but you did it anyway. I want the remaining unfunded 95% repealed. Freeze, repeal.
Three: Czars, I want the circumvention of our checks and balances stopped immediately. Fire the czars. No more czars. Government officials answer to the process, not to the president. Stop trampling on our Constitution and honor it.
Four, cap and trade. The debate on global warming is not over. There is more to say.
Five, universal healthcare. I will not be rushed into another expensive decision. Don't you dare try to pass this in the middle of the night and then go on break. Slow down!
Six, growing government control. I want states rights and sovereignty fully restored. I want less government in my life, not more. Shrink it down. Mind your own business. You have enough to take care of with your real obligations. Why don't you start there.
Seven, ACORN. I do not want ACORN and its affiliates in charge of our 2010 census. I want them investigated. I also do not want mandatory escrow fees contributed to them every time on every real estate deal that closes. Stop the funding to ACORN and its affiliates pending impartial audits and investigations. I do not trust them with taking the census over with our taxpayer money. I don't trust them with our taxpayer money. Face up to the allegations against them and get it resolved before taxpayers get any more involved with them. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, hello. Stop protecting your political buddies. You work for us, the people. Investigate.
Eight, redistribution of wealth. No, no, no. I work for my money. It is mine. I have always worked for people with more money than I have because they gave me jobs. That is the only redistribution of wealth that I will support. I never got a job from a poor person. Why do you want me to hate my employers? Why what do you have against shareholders making a profit?
Nine, charitable contributions. Although I never got a job from a poor person, I have helped many in need. Charity belongs in our local communities, where we know our needs best and can use our local talent and our local resources. Butt out, please. We want to do it ourselves.
Ten, corporate bailouts. Knock it off. Sink or swim like the rest of us. If there are hard times ahead, we'll be better off just getting into it and letting the strong survive. Quick and painful. Have you ever ripped off a Band Aid? We will pull together. Great things happen in America under great hardship. Give us the chance to innovate. We cannot disappoint you more than you have disappointed us.
Eleven, transparency and accountability. How about it? No, really, how about it? Let's have it. Let's say we give the buzzwords a rest and have some straight honest talk. Please try please stop manipulating and trying to appease me with clever wording. I am not the idiot you obviously take me for. Stop sneaking around and meeting in back rooms making deals with your friends. It will only be a prelude to your criminal investigation. Stop hiding things from me.
Twelve, unprecedented quick spending. Stop it now.
Take a breath. Listen to the people. Let's just slow down and get some input from some nonpoliticians on the subject. Stop making everything an emergency. Stop speed reading our bills into law. I am not an activist. I am not a community organizer. Nor am I a terrorist, a militant or a violent person. I am a parent and a grandparent. I work. I'm busy. I'm busy. I am busy, and I am tired. I thought we elected competent people to take care of the business of government so that we could work, raise our families, pay our bills, have a little recreation, complain about taxes, endure our hardships, pursue our personal goals, cut our lawn, wash our cars on the weekends and be responsible contributing members of society and teach our children to be the same all while living in the home of the free and land of the brave.
I entrusted you with upholding the Constitution. I believed in the checks and balances to keep from getting far off course. What happened? You are very far off course. Do you really think I find humor in the hiring of a speed reader to unintelligently ramble all through a bill that you signed into law without knowing what it contained? I do not. It is a mockery of the responsibility I have entrusted to you. It is a slap in the face. I am not laughing at your arrogance. Why is it that I feel as if you would not trust me to make a single decision about my own life and how I would live it but you should expect that I should trust you with the debt that you have laid on all of us and our children. We did not want the TARP bill. We said no. We would repeal it if we could. I am sure that we still cannot. There is such urgency and recklessness in all of the recent spending.
From my perspective, it seems that all of you have gone insane. I also know that I am far from alone in these feelings. Do you honestly feel that your current pursuits have merit to patriotic Americans? We want it to stop. We want to put the brakes on everything that is being rushed by us and forced upon us. We want our voice back. You have forced us to put our lives on hold to straighten out the mess that you are making. We will have to give up our vacations, our time spent with our children, any relaxation time we may have had and money we cannot afford to spend on you to bring our concerns to Washington. Our president often knows all the right buzzword is unsustainable. Well, no kidding. How many tens of thousands of dollars did the focus group cost to come up with that word? We don't want your overpriced words. Stop treating us like we're morons.
We want all of you to stop focusing on your reelection and do the job we want done, not the job you want done or the job your party wants done. You work for us and at this rate I guarantee you not for long because we are coming. We will be heard and we will be represented. You think we're so busy with our lives that we will never come for you? We are the formerly silent majority, all of us who quietly work , pay taxes, obey the law, vote, save money, keep our noses to the grindstone and we are now looking up at you. You have awakened us, the patriotic spirit so strong and so powerful that it had been sleeping too long. You have pushed us too far. Our numbers are great. They may surprise you. For every one of us who will be there, there will be hundreds more that could not come. Unlike you, we have their trust. We will represent them honestly, rest assured. They will be at the polls on voting day to usher you out of office. We have cancelled vacations. We will use our last few dollars saved. We will find the representation among us and a grassroots campaign will flourish. We didn't ask for this fight. But the gloves are coming off. We do not come in violence, but we are angry. You will represent us or you will be replaced with someone who will. There are candidates among us when he will rise like a Phoenix from the ashes that you have made of our constitution.
Democrat, Republican, independent, libertarian. Understand this. We don't care. Political parties are meaningless to us. Patriotic Americans are willing to do right by us and our Constitution and that is all that matters to us now. We are going to fire all of you who abuse power and seek more. It is not your power. It is ours and we want it back. We entrusted you with it and you abused it. You are dishonorable. You are dishonest. As Americans we are ashamed of you. You have brought shame to us. If you are not representing the wants and needs of your constituency loudly and consistently, in spite of the objections of your party, you will be fired. Did you hear? We no longer care about your political parties. You need to be loyal to us, not to them. Because we will get you fired and they will not save you. If you do or can represent me, my issues, my views, please stand up. Make your identity known. You need to make some noise about it. Speak up. I need to know who you are. If you do not speak up, you will be herded out with the rest of the sheep and we will replace the whole damn congress if need be one by one. We are coming. Are we coming for you? Who do you represent? What do you represent? Listen. Because we are coming. We the people are coming.


So....Any thoughts?????????

Nice manifesto, except for 2 things:

1. I do not believe that "we, the people" as a majority are coming or even consider any serious coming any time soon.

2. Not sure what the author's problem with cap and trade is or why she ties it to global warming.

That political parties don't represent interests of common people is of course true; they never did and they will never do. And that the government won't become responsible on their own is true too.

MC, something that the author of the letter neglected to mention is that it is WE THE PEOPLE who have allowed this system to get where it is now. Our government is the result of millions of us Americans sitting back, taking care of our own business and letting Big Brother take care of every facet of our lives. "Oh the government will take care of it....", well it certainly has and WE THE PEOPLE are at fault. Revolution really isn't an option, we're far too sophisticated for that anymore, but we the People could pay attention a little more. We could continue to use our brains, once out of college instead of being spoon fed what we should know.....

Illegal Immigration- valid but optimistic; there are a lot of people that would lose their jobs.

TARP - Troubled Asset Relief Program - good luck on your wants. When it comes to Banks, the sky is the limit.

CZARS - They've been around for years, right Owl? Obama has quite a few. This way he doesn't have to go through all those nasty Senate confirmation hearings.

Cap and Trade - To steadily reduce carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions economy-wide in a cost-effective manner. Ok, now I see your connection. Enlighten me.....

Healthcare - How can such a great country have such poor healthcare? Healthcare Providers and Pharmaceutical Companies are big business in this country....ANY change will be expensive!

Government Control - we allowed it now try taking that bone away from the dog!

ACORN - just another acronym that spends our money.

Redistribution? - you are kidding, right? From our sweat to the governments pockets.

Transparency and Accountability - President Obama has been the most articulate, refreshing, straightforward speaking President, I've heard in years. Give him time and listen to what you're hearing.

Quick Spending? - does he/she realize who we are? We're the United States of America. The People have bottomless pockets, making all this spending possible. We have the Federal Reserve Bank on our side. Geeze!

All the ranting, raving, threatening, bashing, voting/not voting, silent majorities, political parties, fed up Americans, or post menopausal women's screams(I've done this personally) are not going to do a thing unless we all start taking responsibility for where we fit in to all of this mess. Knowledge is the key.


Let's start with the Federal Reserve Bank and it's connection with our current economic crisis? eh? (as Joshini would say!)

quote:

Originally posted by SID:
MC, something that the author of the letter neglected to mention is that it is WE THE PEOPLE who have allowed this system to get where it is now. Our government is the result of millions of us Americans sitting back, taking care of our own business and letting Big Brother take care of every facet of our lives. "Oh the government will take care of it....", well it certainly has and WE THE PEOPLE are at fault. Revolution really isn't an option, we're far too sophisticated for that anymore, but we the People could pay attention a little more. We could continue to use our brains, once out of college instead of being spoon fed what we should know.....

Did not read the letter, but read this and agree. The people have allowed this to happen. There are problems with the government as a whole (as with all systems), but the key to our was the people were supposed to be able to amend the current issue at the time, and move on to keep the democracy healthy. Well republics only work if the citizens care, and have some knowledge. Really, when will they get smart and vote that awful hag Pelosi out of office!

We need term limits, and we need an informative system. I do not know a single person who has time to sit around and watch CSPAN all day, every day, and beyond watching that everything is is just media filtered secondary bias that will not tell anyone anything.

You are wrong on one thing though. Revolution is always an option, though at this time it is not necessary. There is no such thing as too much sophistication for revolution, for revolution and blood has always been the route to freedom.

I say, you can argue and debate all you want, but when you are dead with a bullet in the head, your voice no longer counts, and the big man wins again. Force is the only thing that has ever, really done anything in this world.

quote:

Originally posted by SID:
MC, something that the author of the letter neglected to mention is that it is WE THE PEOPLE who have allowed this system to get where it is now.

Word.

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CZARS - They've been around for years, right Owl? Obama has quite a few. This way he doesn't have to go through all those nasty Senate confirmation hearings.

Why do you ask me?.. They could be called barons, tycoons, or something else and still be the same thing.

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Cap and Trade - To steadily reduce carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas emissions economy-wide in a cost-effective manner. Ok, now I see your connection. Enlighten me.....

It would be nice of you to share the gift of seeing then. I see no connection at all. Cap and trade was here way before anyone uttered a "green" word.

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Healthcare - How can such a great country have such poor healthcare? Healthcare Providers and Pharmaceutical Companies are big business in this country....ANY change will be expensive!

Because there is only so much money in the budget, and if, say, military gets the priority healthcare has to be pushed down the list of vital spendings?

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Transparency and Accountability - President Obama has been the most articulate, refreshing, straightforward speaking President, I've heard in years. Give him time and listen to what you're hearing.

Have to agree with that, but the the habit of spending before thinking or even reading about where the money will go and on what conditions is a bad, bad practice that so far outweighs transparency and openness.

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Let's start with the Federal Reserve Bank and it's connection with our current economic crisis? eh? (as Joshini would say!)

What did you say earlier about bones and dogs? That's right. Good luck, especially with the prevailing mindset that it is all theirs (government's) fault and surely not ours.

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Originally posted by -GhOst-:
We need term limits, and we need an informative system. I do not know a single person who has time to sit around and watch CSPAN all day, every day, and beyond watching that everything is is just media filtered secondary bias that will not tell anyone anything.

Not so. Go to http://data.gov - it's very young but growing by day. The searchable Library of Congress was available online for years for anyone who was interested to peruse for free. If one can't be bothered to lift their butt off the couch in front of the TV and go read the very telling documents, it's his own problem and not that of the government, which is only as good and responsible as people make it to be. If people are apathetic, the government has no incentive to work harder.

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You are wrong on one thing though. Revolution is always an option, though at this time it is not necessary. There is no such thing as too much sophistication for revolution, for revolution and blood has always been the route to freedom.

Ahahahahaa! Sorry, but that was really funny. Study history, especially European and Latin/Central American history - plenty of revolutions of all sorts there. Seriously.

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I say, you can argue and debate all you want, but when you are dead with a bullet in the head, your voice no longer counts, and the big man wins again. Force is the only thing that has ever, really done anything in this world.

If you are saying that in connection to revolutions, than it's not how things work. Those who start the revolution, those who keep it going, and those who rip the rewards are all different parties. hint: those who rip the ultimate rewards rarely put their lives on the line.

I fail to see the humor in this. Yes there are plenty of revolutions there, and yes they do bring a lot of bad, but also give example of any freedom or rights that have been gained without revolution. Certainly not us, or Ireland, or any part of the British empire for that matter, or any part of the Spanish empire, or the french, or any part of the world actually.

A fully peaceful revolution has never worked and in my opinion never will.

In accordance with your three parts of a revolution you have to define what the rewards are. Those who start it and keep it going want to see the current system fall (that is their reward.) If you are saying that seats of power are the reward you are foremost being narrow to the principle of revolution. Now if we were talking about a coup, then yes, the direct reward would be a seat of power (is is the direct goal.) Now this may just be arguing semantics, but I think that is important.

quote:

Originally posted by -GhOst-:
I fail to see the humor in this.

It was the "always" part.

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Yes there are plenty of revolutions there, and yes they do bring a lot of bad, but also give example of any freedom or rights that have been gained without revolution.

Hungary, Czechoslovakia, German Democratic Republic (and I think someone else) in 1989
Philippines in 2001
Georgia in 2003
Ukraine in 2004

And so on.

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Certainly not us, or Ireland, or any part of the British empire for that matter, or any part of the Spanish empire, or the french, or any part of the world actually.

"Any part of the world" can function very differently from what you are accustomed to. Cultural differences and all that.

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A fully peaceful revolution has never worked and in my opinion never will.

You are fully entitled to your opinion, but facts speak against it.

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In accordance with your three parts of a revolution you have to define what the rewards are. Those who start it and keep it going want to see the current system fall (that is their reward.) If you are saying that seats of power are the reward you are foremost being narrow to the principle of revolution. Now if we were talking about a coup, then yes, the direct reward would be a seat of power (is is the direct goal.) Now this may just be arguing semantics, but I think that is important.

Those who start the revolution (I mean leaders, not people from the streets) normally have some plan for post-revolutionary period. Only total morons jump into the revolution with the single idea of bringing the current regime down, and at the moment I can't think of anyone who did that. I am not saying it never happened - people's stupidity knows no boundaries, so why not.

Since revolutionaries have a plan, however sketchy and incomplete, they reckon on gaining power to execute it. They usually don't get that power or if they do, get killed while still active or pushed aside and killed/incapacitated later. This is a statistical observation of course to which there are exceptions, like Fidel Castro.

I said it was always an option. However viable or reasonable is always relative as with anything. Still failing to see the humor in this.

In the case of the Rose Revolution, I too have the power to pick my dog up and put it outside. This said because Georgia really did not have to do anything since their leader had NO power. He did not even have the power or loyalty of even the smallest of military forces. He had as much power as my dog. Wouldn't the world just be a great place if all authoritarian/semi-destructive leaders were that poorly equipped to hold on to their country!

I think you know as well as I do that most men holding a place of great power, actually have power and do not want to give it up that easily. Tough that example makes the direct rhetoric of my statement quite moot, the principle is still just as reasonable. Power is what it takes to overthrow power.

It is not always just about bringing the current regime down, but also separating from it (as we did from the British). The leaders of the revolution had to acquire power because it is needed to fight power. They do not feel that their positions of power are a reward, but a requirement for attaining the reward (freedom from what they do not agree with). Though this power can then be abused in a state of absolute hypocrisy, that is not the point of the revolution.

quote:

Originally posted by -GhOst-:
I said it was always an option. However viable or reasonable is always relative as with anything. Still failing to see the humor in this.

No,what ticked my funny bone was this: "for revolution and blood has always been the route to freedom." It's awfully funny, black-humor style. It's a road to any place but freedom in most cases.

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In the case of the Rose Revolution, I too have the power to pick my dog up and put it outside. This said because Georgia really did not have to do anything since their leader had NO power. He did not even have the power or loyalty of even the smallest of military forces. He had as much power as my dog. Wouldn't the world just be a great place if all authoritarian/semi-destructive leaders were that poorly equipped to hold on to their country!

Shevardnadze was no one's dog, and if he was so insignificant and easy to get rid of, tell me why Soros saw the need to spend millions of dollars on influencing this event.

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I think you know as well as I do that most men holding a place of great power, actually have power and do not want to give it up that easily. Tough that example makes the direct rhetoric of my statement quite moot, the principle is still just as reasonable. Power is what it takes to overthrow power.

Most of the time, but not always.

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It is not always just about bringing the current regime down, but also separating from it (as we did from the British). The leaders of the revolution had to acquire power because it is needed to fight power. They do not feel that their positions of power are a reward, but a requirement for attaining the reward (freedom from what they do not agree with). Though this power can then be abused in a state of absolute hypocrisy, that is not the point of the revolution.

Let's not deviate. We were talking about what rewards of the revolution are, and my reply was strictly about that. What's the point of a revolution besides overthrowing the current power and giving space for a new system is anyone's guess. There can be many lesser points.

It's not just about the leader or a group of leaders, it's about bigger forces that refuse to exist under the current power, don't fit in, can't develop and grow, don't want to share their gains with the overseas metropolis, and so on. They want the power of making decisions, be significant, have a say - merchants, manufacturers, not public figures, not leaders, not necessarily revolutionaries at heart. The long-lasting rewards of the revolution are theirs. They get a chance to become what they want to be after the turmoil of a revolution is over. Those who start the revolution and who keep it alive are more concerned with political and social matters then with underlying economic trends. Their role does not require economic knowledge, it is different. If they are flexible, they will fit into a post-revolutionary stage too, if they can't change and adapt, they will be removed from the political stage for good, and their real or imaginary rewards with them.

Ghost, thank you for your reply. In response to the revolution, I've been a part of a few groups that wanted to revolt and change things in America. I learned a lot, I made a lot of friends, but in the end I merely got in trouble. When push came to shove most retreated to their homes to watch what everyone else was doing. We thought we had the strength, we thought everyone was on board and we thought we were all of one mind in taking back what was ours. But in the end only a handful showed up and that handful was quickly checked from any further actions. I say we are much too sophisticated to be nice, rather than pay a compliment. You proved my point with our complacency, one doesn't need to watch C-SPAN to get in on the workings of our government. The site Ms Owl mentioned is a great one to find out what is going on, as well as other sites that are most informative and to the point. If we want something done, we need to do it ourselves. I've always said that and always will. I'm up for it but, are you?

Ms Owl, I merely referenced you in the Czar comment because you are one of the most informed, intellectually stimulating member of this board. With Obama having 18 plus Czars, I was sure you could validate it. Plus it made my post more personal rather than a speech, ya know what I mean?

Cap and Trade was mentioned in the letter, I believe in the context of the environment because many of the bills introduced to Congress are referred to as Cap and Trade proposals. "In theory, those who can easily reduce emissions most cheaply will do so, achieving the pollution reduction at the lowest possible cost to society."(Wiki quote) Basically just another tax. Now, I can't read her mind, but I am assuming that is what she was referring to regarding Cap and Trade.

Healthcare - BUDGET? What budget? I thought the government printed when needed? (sarcasism)

Transparency and Accountability - Obama has been the most forthcoming, but he relies on his Czars to inform him of what's first on the list.

At last, The awe inspiring Federal Reserve. Our most precious resource that in my opinion is going to out live our country as we know it. They are a handful of men and one woman holding the reins to the world's central banks. Even when they used to report what they did (they no longer report the amount of M3 in circulation) congress has never had the power to regulate them, they've never been audited and they've never paid a dime of taxes. They are in fact royalty, titles of nobility in the US and they get rich producing nothing but bottomless debt and endless inflation. Just my opinion of course.

quote:

Originally posted by SID:
Ghost, thank you for your reply. In response to the revolution, I've been a part of a few groups that wanted to revolt and change things in America. I learned a lot, I made a lot of friends, but in the end I merely got in trouble. When push came to shove most retreated to their homes to watch what everyone else was doing. We thought we had the strength, we thought everyone was on board and we thought we were all of one mind in taking back what was ours. But in the end only a handful showed up and that handful was quickly checked from any further actions.

That's because most had a safe home to retreat to. At the last moment, not many are willing to risk everything they have for the opportunity to maybe change things fro the better. Hope you didn't get into too much trouble with all that.

quote:

Ms Owl, I merely referenced you in the Czar comment because you are one of the most informed, intellectually stimulating member of this board. With Obama having 18 plus Czars, I was sure you could validate it. Plus it made my post more personal rather than a speech, ya know what I mean?

Someone somewhere compared them to Soviet comissars - as in both don't answer to anyone but the chief man in command, both don't need to be approved by any branch of the government, both can potentially enjoy endless power as long as the chief man in command does not get suspicious of their activities. Somewhat semi-valid and could fly even better with those who get allergic to this new layer of power. I think there are more than 18 of those "tsars". And people now are saying that US is heading towards tsarism. Yeah, right, since the socialism plot is getting old, time to come up with another one.

'Tsars" are only a part of the whole picture, the other, bigger, one is that positions taken before by one person are now divided between 2 or more. The government is growing like a bunch of mushrooms after a good rain. That means it becomes more and more expensive for the country without a guarantee that a group of people will do the same job better than one. Say, where one person was in charge of the foreign policy we now have three - Clinton and 2 men versed in Israel-Palestine and Afghanistan-Pakistan better than her (or maybe it's more than 2 additions now - can't remember). But if Hillary gets a bunch of helpers all of which are said to have strong will and all of which have access to the president, what happens to the foreign policy in general? Who ultimately defines it? Won't it become like in the anecdote about the camel being a horse designed by a committee? The same thing goes on in other departments too, but you can't slap a glowing catchy sticker on that process, so people don't freak out about it.

quote:

Cap and Trade was mentioned in the letter, I believe in the context of the environment because many of the bills introduced to Congress are referred to as Cap and Trade proposals. "In theory, those who can easily reduce emissions most cheaply will do so, achieving the pollution reduction at the lowest possible cost to society."(Wiki quote) Basically just another tax. Now, I can't read her mind, but I am assuming that is what she was referring to regarding Cap and Trade.

But it's not a tax, it's a fine/reward system. If you pollute above the cap, you need to buy a permit to pollute more. That's like paying a fine. And hopefully, permit costs will eventually force you to reconsider how you run the business. If you pollute below the cap, you can sell the difference between your pollution level and the cap to those who need the permit - that's a reward for the efficient company. So far, the need for permits is greater than what efficient companies can offer for trade, and the government auctions pollution permits to cover the gap. In theory, more and more companies should find a way to become efficient; in practice the process can be affected in favor of the government to keep the stream of permit revenue going. Like everything else, it can be screwed. But I fail to see what good it would do to drop the cap and trade system without offering some other way to regulate pollution. It's easy to criticize, much easier than coming up with a viable alternative solution.

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Healthcare - BUDGET? What budget? I thought the government printed when needed? (sarcasism)

They do print more as needed, but there have been a limit to the dollar emission so far. It's not a runaway train process.

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Transparency and Accountability - Obama has been the most forthcoming, but he relies on his Czars to inform him of what's first on the list.

You remind me of the Russian folk belief in a good tsar surrounded by bad ministers who won't let him see how things really are because it's not in their interests. A dramatic picture indeed but hardly an accurate one. "Tsars" are not a blocking wall around the president, they are merely another part of the government, several more mouths fighting for the president's ear, people in charge of specialized areas about which common bureaucrats know next to nothing, like cyber security.

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At last, The awe inspiring Federal Reserve. Our most precious resource that in my opinion is going to out live our country as we know it. They are a handful of men and one woman holding the reins to the world's central banks. Even when they used to report what they did (they no longer report the amount of M3 in circulation) congress has never had the power to regulate them, they've never been audited and they've never paid a dime of taxes. They are in fact royalty, titles of nobility in the US and they get rich producing nothing but bottomless debt and endless inflation. Just my opinion of course.

The Fed is an independent part of the government that only oversees US banks; it has no power over the rest of the world financial system. Congress never had means to regulate The Fed, president did and still does. He appoints the Board of Governors of The Fed. Federal reserve banks are not private either. It is true that other banks in the system are held privately and outnumber the federal ones, and there are other private components int he system. Yes, it is not a transparent structure, and whoever made M3 unavailable to the general public probably knew that things were going too bad for people to know. And as for taxes, The 12 reserve banks are non-for-profit organizations, so they are not required to pay taxes. Private banks and other private components pay their own taxes as all businesses do. It's not fair to put all the blame on the Fed like it's some totally independent entity that was supposed to do better but failed. It fails along with the government and the rest of the society - all things are interconnected.

quote:

Originally posted by CoffeeOwl:
That's because most had a safe home to retreat to. At the last moment, not many are willing to risk everything they have for the opportunity to maybe change things fro the better. Hope you didn't get into too much trouble with all that.

No, Ms Owl the trouble only reinforced my commitment to keep on learning. I try to listen to every side of the story, come up with my own ideas and put them out there for others to digest. I won't push my beliefs on others and expect the same from them. The officials I had to deal with said the wrong thing to me when they said "be a good girl and shut up!" That's the last thing I'm going to do.

I can't remember how to do the quote thingy in my posts, but I'm going to attempt to do it so my posts aren't so labored. Please bear with me.

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The government is growing like a bunch of mushrooms after a good rain.

Right up the road from me (about 20 miles) the "shrooms" grow in sh!t! You made a good analogy, Ms Owl!

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But it's not a tax, it's a fine/reward system.

No it's not Per Se, but Ms Owl, we're looking at the same glass of water, You say it's half full, I say it's half empty. While the concept seems to be a pretty inventive idea, I see the abuses right in my own neighborhood. Big Brother with his eyes everywhere doesn't see all.

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They do print more as needed, but there have been a limit to the dollar emission so far. It's not a runaway train process.

Well, in the absence of hard numbers and true accountability yours is little more than a religious belief. The steady dollar devaluation even as I type contradicts your soothing comment.

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You remind me of the Russian folk belief in a good tsar surrounded by bad ministers who won't let him see how things really are because it's not in their interests. A dramatic picture indeed but hardly an accurate one. "Tsars" are not a blocking wall around the president, they are merely another part of the government, several more mouths fighting for the president's ear, people in charge of specialized areas about which common bureaucrats know next to nothing, like cyber security.

I apologize if I gave the impression that President Obama's Czars/Tsars block him from seeing how things really are. I believe they merely help him put things in the proper order for addressing. President Obama seems to be genuinely concerned with the condition of these United States. I doubt that even if his advisers wanted to help alleviate the burden he wouldn't allow it. It's part of his job to know these things, IMO, and he merely has some help with fulfilling his duties. I really don't think he would trust anyone with feeding him information, without he, himself, checking it out. Which makes me wonder why he's appointed so many. But he did say he was going to create jobs and that he has done.

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The Fed is an independent part of the government that only oversees US banks; it has no power over the rest of the world financial system. Congress never had means to regulate The Fed, president did and still does. He appoints the Board of Governors of The Fed. Federal reserve banks are not private either. It is true that other banks in the system are held privately and outnumber the federal ones, and there are other private components int he system. Yes, it is not a transparent structure, and whoever made M3 unavailable to the general public probably knew that things were going too bad for people to know. And as for taxes, The 12 reserve banks are non-for-profit organizations, so they are not required to pay taxes. Private banks and other private components pay their own taxes as all businesses do. It's not fair to put all the blame on the Fed like it's some totally independent entity that was supposed to do better but failed. It fails along with the government and the rest of the society - all things are interconnected.

Ok, Ms Owl, first let me address something I've read in this post and others that I believe you have said. I'm am NOT putting all of the blame for the condition of our beloved United States on the Federal Reserve. As I've said before the blame lies with WE THE PEOPLE, but these pencil pushers have most definitely been manipulating the interests rates, inflation, The United States, the world banking systems, You and me since their inception on Jekyll Island, Georgia in 1910.

At the time the American people were not willing to have a Central Bank for the United States because they knew of the destruction of Europe's Central Bank had caused to the European economy, seeing the large- scale government deficit spending and debt creation that occurred. The creators of the Federal Reserve met in secret on Jekyll Island. Why would Senator Aldrich swear everyone present at that meeting to secrecy? Why? I feel to quote you Ms Owl,"so people don't freak out about it." But in a country where the people are supposed to be sovereign there is no place for secrecy, particularly from the uber elite with a most troubling agenda.

The attendants were seven bankers and economic policymakers, who represented the financial elite of the Western world. "One-sixth of the total wealth of the world was represented by the members of the Jekyll Island Club. Membership was by inheritance only." So The Federal Reserve was created by these people who most definitely knew the hardships, trials and tribulations of WE THE PEOPLE, right?

The book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" is an excellent read. Mr. Griffin gives you a comprehensive look at the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank. Amongst all of the printed works on the FED his is the most comprehensive. And, if Americans understood how the FED's owners have strip mined the US treasury there would be a revolution overnight.

I'm just putting things out there. We all can agree to disagree....an so it goes.

So, I'm following this thread but keeping quiet because I really haven't done much research on any of this and really don't want to go throwing my opinion around like facts (we all know how much I HATE that) but I just wanted to address this:

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Well, in the absence of hard numbers and true accountability yours is little more than a religious belief. The steady dollar devaluation even as I type contradicts your soothing comment.

Being married to a UKC, I kind of get a different point of view on things like the USD compared to other currency. I know, in the case of the GBP, the devaluation of the USD has less to do with the amount in circulation and more to do with investment. Other countries are handling their financial situations better than us and are getting to reap the benefits faster with people investing in their currencies rather than ours. And just to sound a bit selfish, I'm glad to see it since Will gets paid in GBP. We end up with more money every month right now than we did 6 months ago (though not as much as we got a year ago).

The Fed Reserve doesn't control the entire world's economy and we seem to keep forgetting that it's not just our country that's currently going through financial problems. It's almost everyone else, as well. I'm not sure where I was going with that but I'm done, now... carry on.

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Originally posted by SID:
MC, something that the author of the letter neglected to mention is that it is WE THE PEOPLE who have allowed this system to get where it is now. Our government is the result of millions of us Americans sitting back, taking care of our own business and letting Big Brother take care of every facet of our lives. "Oh the government will take care of it....", well it certainly has and WE THE PEOPLE are at fault. Revolution really isn't an option, we're far too sophisticated for that anymore, but we the People could pay attention a little more. We could continue to use our brains, once out of college instead of being spoon fed what we should know.....

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This is absolutely the point. People have been just standing by the side lines. And now we are seeing the results of it.

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All the ranting, raving, threatening, bashing, voting/not voting, silent majorities, political parties, fed up Americans, or post menopausal women's screams(I've done this personally) are not going to do a thing unless we all start taking responsibility for where we fit in to all of this mess. Knowledge is the key.

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Could not agree with you more Sidders.
I may not necessarily agree with agree in this letter. My opinion is kind of beside the point. My point is that there are many Americans who feel like she does in her letter. Its not hard to see when you look at TV ratings and so on.

I think its interesting this thread brought about the discussion of revolution. In webster's one meaning for revolution is: a sudden, radical, or complete change.

Change has taken place. Look how quickly the Dems are moving to get everything under the sun they can passed while they have control. Whether we need them or not, its not the point; its the speed and methods used that I take issue with.

In my opinion, the Democrat party is not the same, their agenda is very different than traditional Democrat views. Same with Republicans. To me, one point of the letter is that we need to be aware of what our government is doing and it is time for change and reform in both parties. How can we know what our government is doing when they pass bills the size of books as hastily as they have been?

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Let's start with the Federal Reserve Bank and it's connection with our current economic crisis? eh? (as Joshini would say!)

You know, I was really surprised that the government did not raise interest rates years ago. Of coarse there would have been repercussions for this action. But instead, Americans just spent and spent, and spent somemore.

At the end of the day, it is the spending habits of Americans that got us into this mess. Eventually all of the spending had to catch up with us. The market is falling because investors lost money and didn't want to invest. Businesses are not doing well because consumers cannot spend money. Consumers have maxed out their credit or cannot get more. Its quite simple really.

But,,,what the government is doing to try to fix it is my concern. Sure we need a better healthcare process, and cleaner air, etc, etc. But the problem is, when does it end? Why does the government have to all of this now? When does the spending stop?

I am still not convinced any of their spending is creating jobs. True, employment is a lagging factor. But all of this spending will catch up with us and the damage will be done. If out of control consumer spending helped get us in this mess, how does government spending out of control help us now?