http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

This is a speech from 1961. Funny how relevant it is today.

I have to agree with ya, MC, this is very relevant to contemporary issues. I don't particularly care for the "scare" tactics, but you do what ya have to do, I guess.

Have you seen Michael Moore's "Sicko"? While I'm not a big fan of his, the movie did point out one thing to me....It's absolutely disgusting that a country as great as ours, has such poor and expensive healthcare. I read on Saturday that Obama is backing down from his initiative on the government taking over the healthcare system. I suppose the town hall meetings proved to accomplish their goals. But isn't our government a big factor in our healthcare in these United States? I mean there's about four lobbyists for healthcare for every congressman. Drug costs are astronomical and a simple office visit to your GP can cost you well over $200.

Here's a little case in point. When I lost my job in January, I was offered COBRA insurance. I couldn't afford it for both hubby and I, so I started paying $351 per month, just so hubby could have coverage for his prescriptions, shots and specialist visits (all the services require a co-pay, btw).

I'm on a couple prescriptions for my elbow, which I didn't have surgery on 5 years ago. When I was covered by insurance I only paid $10 per script. So in January, I shopped the different pharmacies to get the best price. One script was $130 bi monthly and the other was $90 per month. That's alot considering we were only getting a $320 unemployment check. Anyway, I asked at Rite Aid and Walgreens if they had prescription drug cards. They did and I signed up for them. Each saved me about $30 on one script and $20 on the other. That helped alot. Then I went online to do some comparison shopping. I found various online prescription drug savings cards and I signed up for each, I mean what did I have to lose? I went to the PS Card site. OMG! I could go to any pharmacy and get a pretty good discount, but if I went to Walmart or Acme (a grocer) my prescriptions would cost me $29 for the first and $11 for the second. Of course it was the generic form but WTF? How can there be such a difference in the price? As it was I was paying for generic drugs at Rite Aid and Walgreens to begin with, when I was insured. This is the reason why this healthcare issue is a big deal to me. There's something funny going on here and healthcare and prescription drugs are very big BUSINESS in this country. At whose costs? OURS!!!!

Now if the government could take care of fixing this mess that they got us into, I would be interested. But from years of experience with our government, it seems that anything they partake in only ends up in a mess. I didn't say EVERYthing.

So I'm on the fence on this issue. While I'm devastated financially because of the loss of my job, I am so much more aware of issues that I didn't bother to check out. Just my opinion, of course.

Did you listen to that **** on the Bill Maher Show? He was playing some of that **** a couple of episodes ago.

SID -

First off, I am not sure I like the term scare tactics, it is so arbitrary that it is not really relevant. What is a scare tactic? Is it anything that someone says can go wrong whether it does or not? If it does go wrong is it no longer a scare tactic, but a premonition?

Sicko is sick in itself. I had a very liberal teacher who actually believes that Cuba's health care is better than our own. I blame the movie Sicko. This is pure fallacy. Why do you say our health care system is poor?

Yes, our health care is expensive. Why? Because quality costs more. You can pay US health prices and actually get treatment that will most likely do something. Or you can pay Cuban health prices and get a voodoo witch doctor to do incantations over your dying body.

If anyone dares say we have poor quality health care then ask yourself why on earth many of the important leaders of the world have been taken here, to the US of A, for treatment?

Your case in point starts not with health care but with, "When I lost my job in January." This makes your case perfect. The problem is not the health care (though the system could use some work). The problem is jobs. Unemployment is at 9.4% This is only going to get worse if small businesses have to cut people due to governmental health care taxes.

The solution is to get the government out of our business entirely!

Helps that he was a professional actor, does not it? Adds convincingness and all that. You are not taking it as spontaneous, spoken out of the goodness of Reagan's heart something, do you? Do you know who paid for the speech to be aired, for the whole campaign? You've heard of AMA and the Operation Coffeecup, right? It's not about doing what you have to do, it's doing what you were paid to do, and being a professional, Reagan did it well.

quote:

Originally posted by -GhOst-:
Why do you say our health care system is poor?

Because even with a job people can't afford to use it as they should. Because health care is a privilege, not a right. And once you are retired, you are on your own. Insurance does not like you anymore, and Medicare sees you as a burden.

quote:

The solution is to get the government out of our business entirely!

Of course. Long live the business of making money on sick people. FYI, I am not a proponent of the socialized healthcare. It can be as ugly as a private healthcare system, only it's a different kind of ugly.

One must be a healthy person with a healthy family to love what is in place in US right now.

quote:

Originally posted by CoffeeOwl:
Helps that he was a professional actor, does not it? Adds convincingness and all that. You are not taking it as spontaneous, spoken out of the goodness of Reagan's heart something, do you? Do you know who paid for the speech to be aired, for the whole campaign? You've heard of AMA and the Operation Coffeecup, right? It's not about doing what you have to do, it's doing what you were paid to do, and being a professional, Reagan did it well.

Actually I just posted the clip as a different perspective.

Funny you say that, because technically I think the same could be said for most politicians now a days.

I am familiar with Reagan and some of his philosophies and I agree with him on quite a few things. As far as the AMA and Operation Coffeecup thats something I will look up though.

The reason why I am so against the government taking control of our healthcare is because of my experience with our Military Healthcare system. I really do not see how you can come up with a healthcare plan for Americans when the government cannot support programs like Medicaid/Social Security, etc. Not to mention the completely underfunded VA hospitals which are in desperate needs of more funds.

The costs of many products and services have been rising astronomically for years now. Healthcare is front and center because of necessity. If the government would meet with a panel of professions in all forms (such as doctors, hospitals, dept of Health and human services, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, etc) and come up with some productive ideas, just maybe they could accomplish something.

The problem is with so many decisions our administration is making in haste right now (not to mention how they have been grossly underestimating the fruits of their plans) I feel that they should be focusing on ways for people to keep their jobs so they can keep the insurance they have. Many states have programs in place for people who do not have insurance. Yes, it is rough not having insurance. I am not arguing that. So how about looking into ways to help people are in need instead of everyone.

I doubt anyone who is so against the administration's healthcare plans actually do not want the problem addressed. But how can you have leaders who do not work in the medical field nor have medical experience be in control of fixing the problem?

Oh, I guess in the case of Obama you just pick Czars for suggestions. The heck with government process.

quote:

Originally posted by SID:
This is the reason why this healthcare issue is a big deal to me. There's something funny going on here and healthcare and prescription drugs are very big BUSINESS in this country. At whose costs? OURS!!!!

So I'm on the fence on this issue. While I'm devastated financially because of the loss of my job, I am so much more aware of issues that I didn't bother to check out. Just my opinion, of course.

I do agree with you kiddo. So I wonder what would happen if the government said to the drug companies something like "if we give you X amount of dollars for research then you put X percentage of profits into a fund". There are ways the government could work with the drug companies I'm sure.

I'm sorry about your job. Since I left my job in retail, I have been working for a temp agency for a year. I still haven't found a permanent home yet. Luckily my husband has insurance or we would be up a creek.

Just another thought...

Also, you know, even if you have insurance your not completely out of the woods. Hospital costs are ridiculous and while insurance do help to keep the costs down it does not mean that copays and what not don't get up there.

That being said, I would rather have coverage I pay for that works and is good quality care anyday.

I hope that Universal Health Care bill doesn't pass :P

That's really going to **** up things over here in the Yakima Valley, and it's definitely going to raise the death rate a hell of a lot higher for anyone who plans on having a baby in Yakima county.

Just another thought. A lot of the cost of health care (beyond the doctor costs) is the actual drug costs. Drugs are expensive. Socialist think that we can just tell the drug companies to cut costs. Makes sense right? Drugs are really cheap to produce. Wrong.

Though drugs are cheap to produce after the first one, remember that the first pill costs $400 million. If you cut profit, you cut research (this is true in every field.) Government intervention yields destruction of progress. Funny considering the Libs call themselves "progressives" again.

quote:

Originally posted by metal chick:
But how can you have leaders who do not work in the medical field nor have medical experience be in control of fixing the problem?

Good question. Because it's not professionals who handle the problem we see what we see - a reality show, a circus. Both camps make fun of each other, push for their agendas, stir emotions, and almost no one particularly cares for uninsured or seniors.

quote:

Originally posted by -GhOst-:
Though drugs are cheap to produce after the first one, remember that the first pill costs $400 million. If you cut profit, you cut research (this is true in every field.) Government intervention yields destruction of progress. Funny considering the Libs call themselves "progressives" again.

Are pharmacies, private insurance companies, and their deals with drug manufacturers missing from the picture by some mistake? And who told you that a significant part of drug costs goes back into research?

quote:

Originally posted by CoffeeOwl:
Are pharmacies, private insurance companies, and their deals with drug manufacturers missing from the picture by some mistake? And who told you that a significant part of drug costs goes back into research?

No, pharmacies, and private insurance companies are not relevant to production cost. You can make all the deals you want and sell things at any rate you want, but that does not change the material cost of the item.

Who told you that a significant part of the cost does not go back into research? What do you consider significant? What do you call the costs? Are you talking about the profit and gains?

The simple fact is that in a capitalist system people will use any money they have (and in many cases money they don't ave) to research and create something new. This is so they can make more money. The amount they spend on that is not relevant to their previous profit, it is relevant to what it takes to get the job done. No one said that someone needs to spend 75% of their profit on research, especially not when they can get the job done in %10.

Do you disagree that research is only possible (in reality) when there is profit to be made? How many people want to invent or create when they will gain nothing from doing so?

quote:

Originally posted by -GhOst-:
SID -
First off, I am not sure I like the term scare tactics, it is so arbitrary that it is not really relevant. What is a scare tactic? Is it anything that someone says can go wrong whether it does or not? If it does go wrong is it no longer a scare tactic, but a premonition?

I grew up when we use to have "duck and cover" drills, weekly in school. I was lucky to have a friend that had a "certified" fallout shelter in her backyard, to which me and my family could take shelter in if we (the US of A) needed shelter from a nuclear attack. This was very real and the "scare tactics" were used to force compliance. What better way than using the schools to drive the message home? While there were quite a few who didn't agree, most of the country was incorporating these safe practices should a nuclear war happen. Mr. Reagan was a very eloquent speaker who read his script to scare the hell out of anyone who dared think socialized medicine would be a better way. If someone said, Joe Smoe says, " Hey, this plan the Demos have for Medicare, isn't socialism." He would be called a commie because he thought differently than the status quo. Today "socialized" "national" are buzzwords describing healthcare that would be less than the FREEdoms we're suppose to enjoy in these United States. These buzzwords are used to scare Americans into thinking we do have the very best healthcare in the world; yeah it's expensive but that's quality for ya. If you disagree MOVE! What's wrong with free thinking? Why shouldn't we re-examine our healthcare and pharmaceutical systems and see why they are so expensive. Let's see where the money goes and how much really is spent on RESEARCH. No premonitions here, just the way I've seen it today and throughout the years.

quote:

Originally posted by -GhOst-:
Sicko is sick in itself. I had a very liberal teacher who actually believes that Cuba's health care is better than our own. I blame the movie Sicko. This is pure fallacy. Why do you say our health care system is poor?

I do have my issues with Sicko, but at least it got me thinking about alternatives rather than hold on tightly to what the AMA wants me to think. Our healthcare system is POOR....it sucks! Ask anyone who has insurance. Ask a young woman who wants to have an OB/GYN check up.....bet it takes her 6 months to get in. Go to an emergency room and see who's being seen, when. Even with insurance, medical/pharmaceutical services are sky high. WHY? When I worked in a California Hospital if people didn't have a HMO they would be shipped off to a county hospital for treatment. Yeah, if required, they would be stabilized, but shipped nontheless, because the non-profit hospital I worked for couldn't accept patients that didn't fit the AMA standards. Oh, but the East LA stabbings and shootings would be seen because they had Medicaid. We use to know when a certain heart surgeon was going on vacation.....he would schedule open heart surgeries, one after another to get his funds up. His usual case load was about one or two a month. There were all kinds of abuses when I worked there and I assume most of these issues have been addressed, but the fact still remains, in my mind that there are more ingenious absurdities going on today.

quote:

Originally posted by -GhOst-:
Yes, our health care is expensive. Why? Because quality costs more. You can pay US health prices and actually get treatment that will most likely do something. Or you can pay Cuban health prices and get a voodoo witch doctor to do incantations over your dying body.

Sorry but *cough Bullsheet cough*. Where did you get that information? Why is it that people think the US has the only competent doctors? I haven't checked it out, but I will. I thought voodoo witch doctors were in Africa. *giggles* Sorry, Ghost. Please don't take offense, just take a look.....

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

This is from 2000 because the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task. Man, that's an understatement. I wonder where the United States of America is ranked today?

While the names have changed the problems still exist. I give Obama a thumbs up for at least trying to go up against the all powerful AMA and Big Pharma. But with those buzzwords being thrown around I doubt he'll be able to do much if anything. Just my opinion, okies? okies!

quote:

Originally posted by metal chick:
I do agree with you kiddo. So I wonder what would happen if the government said to the drug companies something like "if we give you X amount of dollars for research then you put X percentage of profits into a fund". There are ways the government could work with the drug companies I'm sure.

Considering how comfy our government and the pharmaceuticals are, I doubt we would see any significant change in anything, from such a compromise. One thing you could bet on is that both our government and the pharmaceuticals would benefit and WE would be footing the cost. And we all know what happens when our government is in charge of any fund that is appropriated for something.

quote:

I'm sorry about your job. Since I left my job in retail, I have been working for a temp agency for a year. I still haven't found a permanent home yet. Luckily my husband has insurance or we would be up a creek.

I only mentioned the unemployment because it forced me to face reality on alot of fronts. Heathcare being one of the most important. OMG, I should write a book!

I only hope for the best for you, MC. Something good will happen, you just have to perservere. One door closes another opens, or something like that. That other door for me seems stuck or locked but I'll get there, as I'm sure you will as well. Keep your head up, Dear.